outdoor use

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NotInTheMafia
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outdoor use

Post by NotInTheMafia »

Hello,
I have a quick question about the outdoor use of this product. While it is advertised as a indoor positioning system i see several videos of it being used outside. I am building a parking lot sweeping rover and I believe this system could be the perfect solution to our positioning needs. I would like to know the number of beacons it would take to cover a 100x100ft square outside. I'm assuming the performance outside is somewhat more limited than inside. Also how susceptible to noise sources like "road noise", music playing, people talking in the area...

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Re: outdoor use

Post by admin »

NotInTheMafia wrote:Hello,
I have a quick question about the outdoor use of this product. While it is advertised as a indoor positioning system i see several videos of it being used outside. I am building a parking lot sweeping rover and I believe this system could be the perfect solution to our positioning needs. I would like to know the number of beacons it would take to cover a 100x100ft square outside. I'm assuming the performance outside is somewhat more limited than inside. Also how susceptible to noise sources like "road noise", music playing, people talking in the area...

Yes, for experimenting and testing it is possible to use the current HW also outside - when outside conditions are similar to indoor - normal temperatures, not rain, no moisture/fog, etc. We regular use outdoor current version is not suitable purely because it is not IP6x protected.

100x100ft could be covered with as few 4 stationary beacons in 2D mode - 2 submaps (100x50ft + 100x50ft).
You are right. When there is a strong wind, strong "road noise", the performance maybe degraded. However, everything has to be tested. For example, with averaging basic white noise ("road noise" or wind noise) can be battled pretty effectively. So, performance of the system is not really different outdoor and indoor. As you have seen on videos, our largest area videos were shot outdoor.

We are working on IP6x version. It is expected to come in a couple of months. It will be well protected against the rain, but the largest distance between beacons may be in the range of 20-25 meters, rather than 30-50 meters with the current system. And that is in low noise environment.
When external noise is the limitation, the performance maybe even closer between outdoor and indoor HW versions.

NotInTheMafia
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Re: outdoor use

Post by NotInTheMafia »

Thank you for your prompt and informative reply! I do not wish to disclose project details in public, however I do believe your service and product will be extremely useful to us. How can you be reached more privately?

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Re: outdoor use

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NotInTheMafia wrote:Thank you for your prompt and informative reply! I do not wish to disclose project details in public, however I do believe your service and product will be extremely useful to us. How can you be reached more privately?

Drop us email: info@marvelmind.com

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Re: outdoor use

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nellych wrote:For outdoor use, it is better to use GPS. Beacons are better suited for indoor navigation, like supermarkets, airports, libraries.
If you can live with 5-10m precision and you have open skies, then GPS is the most optimal.
If you have open skies and want a cm-level precision, rather than 5-10m at best, over larger areas (for example, agriculture field) => RTK GPS.
If you don't have open skies, or indoor, or underground and need cm-level precision => Marvelmind Indoor "GPS"

geonerd
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Re: outdoor use

Post by geonerd »

Is there an update on the IP6x version and when it might be available? I'm interested in outdoor use where we can't use RTK GPS, but still need precise positioning. Thanks.

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Re: outdoor use

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geonerd wrote:Is there an update on the IP6x version and when it might be available? I'm interested in outdoor use where we can't use RTK GPS, but still need precise positioning. Thanks.

Hello,

Yes, we already have two types of outdoor versions commercially available. They are produced on request. Lead time 1-3 weeks depending on the volume:
- Mild outdoor
- Heavy duty outdoor

Mild:
- Electronics is fully compound sealed. DIP switch is not available
- USB is available, but connector is not protected
- Ultrasonic sensors are not protected
Mild outdoor is suitable for cases, when there is occasional rain, dust, etc. It won't kill the system. We submerged to water for 30 mins and everything was just fine (IPx7 test).

Heavy duty:
- Special types of sensors are used for TX beacon
- Special IP67 protection for RX beacon
- Electronics is IP67 protected or/and compound sealed
There are two types of Heavy-Duty Outdoor:
1) With external power supply and no internal battery. We also may provide an IP67 power converter (~110-220 to +12V). And it has external IP67 interfaces with RS232/RS485 output
2) Fully sealed. No external connectors at all. 4000mAh internal battery and wireless charger. Data and programming via radio only

Please, see the Beacons Comparison: https://marvelmind.com/pics/!_Marvelmin ... arison.pdf

Kind regards,
Maxim

jonrarine
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Re: outdoor use

Post by jonrarine »

Yes, the present HW can be used outside for exploration and testing when the outside conditions are the same as the internal settings - normal temperature, no rain, no humidity/fog, and so on. 100x100ft can be covered in 2D mode, according to me, with four static beacons - two submaps (100x50ft + 100x50ft). You are correct. When there is a heavy wind, or when there is a lot of "road-noise," performance can suffer. However, everything has to be tested.

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Re: outdoor use

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We have several outdoor solutions:
- https://marvelmind.com/product/starter- ... al-nia-01/
- https://marvelmind.com/product/battery-12v-5ah-outdoor/
- https://marvelmind.com/product/beacon-i ... -metal-25/
- https://marvelmind.com/product/industri ... n-plastic/
- https://marvelmind.com/product/modem-hw-v5-1-outdoor/
- https://marvelmind.com/product/super-beacon-outdoor/
- https://marvelmind.com/product/industrial-rx/
- https://marvelmind.com/product/industrial-tx-metal/
- https://marvelmind.com/product/mini-rx-ip67/

Also, Helmet, Jacket and Badge can be made weather protected:
- https://marvelmind.com/product/helmet/
- https://marvelmind.com/product/jacket/
- https://marvelmind.com/product/badge/
- https://marvelmind.com/product/headlight/

Remember, that IPxx protection tells that the equipment won't be damaged during the exposure. It doesn't really tell anything that it would work normally during the exposure. For example, you can put a Super-Beacons under the water. It will survive without problem:

However, obviously, it can't work while underwater. Similar, to other distractions: https://youtu.be/cIA2Gc5KaQI.

Yes, road noise, strong wind or similar wideband white noise can affect the tracking. Though, it is mostly about signal to noise ratio rather than the level of noise per ce. So, you have a smaller-sized submap, the system can withstand a stronger external noise.

See more in these demos:
- https://youtu.be/FOQ__CoYcvw
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7jsAwS7Pyw&t=189s

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